In conversation with Shri Swami Vishveshwarananda, President, Omkarananda Ashram
Himalayas, at a Spiritual Retreat in Omkarananda Dipeshwar Mandir, on 1.12.2007

It was a retreat like none other. Omkarananda Dipeshwar Mandir was aglow with the charming personalities of Shri Swami Vishveshwarananda and Swami Shankarananda who had come all the way from Spain with his disciples for an intense Spiritual Retreat that would be remembered for many decades to come.

As the two spiritual personalities met, there was an exchange of divine vibrations. Swami Vishveshwar­ananda saw all the divine souls in front of him and felt proud. He could not keep his divine emotions to himself and his feelings soon turned into words, filling the premises with intense vibrations. “You divine souls, who are all receiving the blessings of your Guruji, are most lucky,” he said, with a sparkle in his eyes.

“Life today is dragging everyone away from spirituality but not the disciples of Swamiji,” he continued. “Swamiji does one thing: he keeps you away from the pain of ignorance, and at the same time, tries to put you from ignorance to the Divine Reality. Indian philosophy says that the Guru is greater than God. I can assure you that God is everywhere – in this table, chair, in everything. Can you see it? If you can see it, I will admire you and consider you as enlightened Souls. In that case, you would not sit here; you would sit somewhere deep in the Himalayas, maybe in the forest. But your sitting here is also of utmost importance. You are lucky to find a Guru. We say Guru is greater than God because God is manifested in the Guru. So, it is always important for the disciple to be totally devoted to the Holy feet of the Guru.”

At this stage, the visiting Swami Shankarananda Tilak asked Swami Vishveshwarananda to give Diksha to the Spiritual Retreat. He said: “We are an intimately related Parampara because we are also disciples of Swami Sivananda through Shri Swami Vishnudevananda.” Then he suddenly said: “Swamiji has asked us that if we have any questions we can ask him.”

To which Swami Vishveshwarananda replied that a question-answer session would be interesting, because “if I go on speaking, maybe some questions remain in the heart, which could never be answered. I would like to add one more thing. I have made a vow to myself that I will never say anything which I am not capable of doing. If I would say something which I am not capable of doing than I would be a hypocrite. Any hypocrisy cannot stand near God. So, any questions?”

At this point, the disciples, gathered at the Omkarananda Dipeshwar Mandir, wanted to discuss various spiritual aspects with Swami Vishveshwarananda. Here are excerpts of the question-answer session:

Disciple: As I understand, there are three ways to realize your Self: Karma Marga, Bhakti Marga and Jnana Marga. Swamiji, what is your opinion? Can a Bhakta attain Self-realization without Jnana?

Swamiji: To be very frank, there are not just three ways of attaining to one’s Self. Truth can be attained in endless number of ways and we can focus on any one line which is suitable for us. For example, a house wife wants to experience the Truth. She might not have all this knowledge of the books. But she might have great love in her heart. She can go to the Holy feet of Guruji and her entire thinking is always centered around Guruji, and the eternal beauty of the Lord. And since she always thinks of Him in the way described the Lord may one day express His full beauty to her. And what way she has chosen? Simply the way of real kindness, goodness and love.
If we speak of these three ways, none of these three ways has an impact unless and until there is no inner and outer purity. If there are impurities then mind can work as a barricade and the whole philosophical theory is equal to nothing. We have seen sometimes that grace liberates people. On the other hand I saw recently in the newspapers that a highly educated professor with all his special knowledge is in trouble. So, where his inner development is gone? Where his entire knowledge is gone? No where!!

Disciple: What can we do so that devotion arises in us?

Swamiji: There are endless ways for arising it. The first way I suggest is that the disciple is lucky to have his Guruji here. But since you have asked this question to me, I may tell you a few things. See, mostly we think of anything else during the day. If you have the most beautiful woman as your wife and if tomorrow the wife runs away, twenty four hours you will be thinking of your wife. If with the same devotion you would think of the Divine, slowly, slowly you would come forward into a stage in which the Divinity arises devotion. Everybody has a measurement of his progress. Christ said, “Become like a child”. Children are pure hearted. They are very innocent. So, if you can lead such a nice life, a pure life, a good, honest, dedicated and simple life you will suddenly feel that a certain happiness arises in you. It is like the child having the innocent happiness. Your life may become easy like a play, you may joyously speak to others in great happiness and then you will know that now devotion has started. But the biggest hindrance usually on the way to this beautiful stage is, that we are too much attached to our wants. And even if we think we have removed all the desires there are still endless inner wishes, which stop the man from true progress. I can tell all the nice disciples here an unbreakable truth. Unless and until you don’t become God you cannot experience Truth. Man without ego is God and God with ego is man. You are all Gods. But ego is the main problem. Everybody knows that ego is the most disastrous thing. Tell a great developed soul who has overcome endless obstacles that he is an idiot. He will become angry. God has gone and man has come. Tell to a small child “You are an idiot”, it still loves you. So, let us become like children.

Disciple: In Ashtavakra Gita, Master Ashtavakra says that there is no ignorance, there is no enlightenment. I don’t understand this and I would request you to explain this to me.

Swamiji: If the spiritual seeker has attained a spiritual height in which he is free from the bondage of the birth he might experience the things that you have mentioned. Enlightenment is a clear fact, which has been experienced by thousands and thousands of great Saints all over the world. And they have given their wisdom and knowledge to the seekers of the entire planet. So listen to the simple and beautiful teachings of Swamiji Maharaj, hold on to him and then one day automatically these things will be understood.

Disciple: In the Yoga Sutras, Para 3 of Vibhuti Pala, in Shloka 43, are talks about the relationship between the body and space. The yogi makes his body fine as the thread of cotton and so he can elevate in space. This para talks about more ways. This is said to be during Savikalpa and Nirvikalpa Samadhi. These powers that the Yoga Sutras talk about can we reach any of these stages?

Swamiji: Of course you can reach! But the Rishis and Yogis have spent endless time and have done greatest sacrifice to reach this stage. They have taken endless sacrifices on themselves. My main request to you is: Anything in life which is not God-centered is not worth pursuing. So, whether we go in the line of Rishis or in the line of that simple, humble housewife – both are great. God can manifest Himself in millions of ways and to reach the Divine, there are also millions of ways. If we can free ourselves from the bondage to world, to birth and death, then no achievement in the world could be better. Sooner or later we have to achieve this state. Everybody who is sitting here one day will be found to attain the Supreme Reality and be free from all these worldly, nonsense perversions which were hindering our real progress.
 
Disciple: The masters say that the race of masters is becoming extinguished in Kaliyuga, because the race of disciples is also becoming extinguished. What is your opinion and is there anything that we can do to stop this?

Swamiji: If you are truly at the feet of the Master it can never extinguish. But sometimes what happens is, there is a spiritual aspirant full of tremendous power, very attractive, very attracted to all the people, spiritually highly advanced, regarded as an outstanding Personality – two beautiful eyes of an extra-ordinary woman can pull him down. So, where has the power gone? So, that is the reason why we have to be very careful on the spiritual path. Because ignorance and dark forces are always trying to keep you away from the Divine Reality. But if we can withstand all temptations and dark forces in victory we will have the greatest gain. And the path of spiritualism is so beautiful that we cannot compare it with anything else, even if Bill Gates gives his entire fortune to you and requests you to come out of your spiritual pursuit you won’t gain anything.
The first blessing that man got is that he got a pure body. He should be thankful for that. Spoiling the pure body that the Lord has given to us is unfaithfulness towards the Divinity. It will only have a very bad effect. So, keep it beautiful and pure always as you are keeping it now, thanks to the wisdom of your Guruji.

There are many ways for spiritual progress and people pursue many forms of yoga sadhana. But there is one form of yoga which seems to be very effective and that yoga is called Karma Yoga. If the spiritual individual is seriously dedicated, ready to serve the Guru and the Ashram without demanding even simple things, does every work given to him, then his spiritual progress is extra-ordinary.

Disciple: Thank you very much Swamiji. I am sorry I think I have not expressed my question clearly. Masters are the people who hold knowledge. They should transmit this knowledge to the disciple so that the disciple becomes a master as well. But masters today say that they don’t find disciples who really want to follow this path. Then the knowledge is lost. I wanted to know your opinion that the masters who have this knowledge, should they take some effort to spread this knowledge or should they not?

Swamiji: I understand your question and concern. What you say is correct. We are living in a condition where there are lots of difficulties but even then in this Kaliyuga, much progress can be achieved. In olden days disciples came forward to seek knowledge from the Masters. That root can never be lost. Swamiji’s teachings will be noted down and may be the children of some of his disciples will pick them up and it will continue. I am of the opinion that nothing can ever be lost. You can lose the world but you can never lose the Truth. So, please do not have any worry. The teachings of Swamiji are very safe in you, our Gurudev’s teachings are safe with us, and more and more people will come.

Disciple: Swamiji, you mentioned earlier that there are many ways to attain Self-realisation. To my knowledge there are two ways to attain it. One is pravritti marga* (inclination of mind, activity, attachment with worldly objects) and the other is nirvritti marga* (contentment, freedom from self interest.) Which one is better and faster?

Swamiji: Of course, in both the ways you have a chance of experiencing the Truth. If you are a house holder then most of the time you will have to spend time to make arrangement for your children, for your husband, for your family, etc. whereas a Sadhu can, without any such commitments, go to pilgrim-places like Badrinath and endlessly recite the Mantra of his choice. He can be totally in touch with the spiritual thoughts. But even then a house wife can still experience the same Truth. But it is slightly difficult because the housewife is mostly pre-occupied. If the housewife has the capacity to see in her children, her husband and everywhere Lord Krishna, Buddha or Lord Shiva or the Guru, all the time, then may be she can attain to Self-Realisation faster than anyone else, but specially the Sannyasi, who has totally given up the worldly life, which is not very easy, because he may come across many challenges, many temptations which he has to master, can make immense spiritual progress within a very short time. If he can master all challenges and temptations he will be the most shining Sannyasi. He will be extra-ordinary, a Divine Personality.

Disciple: Shankaracharya says that you shouldn’t trust your mind. So how can we know whether we should listen or should not listen to our mind?

Swamiji: It’s a very good question. Shankaracharya is very correct. What I would suggest is: Control it. There are many ways to do that. Guruji normally gives some mantras to the disciples. If you recite these mantras with serious devotion you may get into a stage where you become that mantra.

There are people totally devoted to the constant recitation of prayers. The prayers are protectors, the prayers generate a whole invisible world. The recitation of the mantras can lead you to unexpected progress constantly. However, if you recite the mantra three times in a day and the rest of the time you do some wrong things, it brings more bad than good.

Disciple: I want to ask about one Shloka in Bhagavad-Gita in chapter 18, 3rd Shloka. Some wise men say that action should be avoided. Some other wise men say that austerities and sacrifices should be kept. How can we avoid action while living in the world?

Swamiji: For different purposes different steps are necessary. Act without attachment. You may have to act in a different way in which you have not acted before. Your actions depend on the degree of your spiritual progress. Whatever these wise men have said is correct. Sometimes on the spiritual path, we feel that the spiritual leader might be contradictory. But the true leader cannot be contradictory. Only the different appearances of the situations may project him to be contradictory. Truth can never be contradictory. Truth is always the same. But in order to be relieved from time-space world actions, austerities and sacrifices cannot be avoided.

Disciple: How can we differentiate or not confuse between emotions and a divine desire?

Swamiji: Once you reach a certain stage, your inner heart keeps you on a certain path where you cannot go wrong. But this is only possible when you are very much matured in the spiritual life. When you are living in a spirit of dedication and devotion, when you are constantly in tune and in touch with the Supreme Reality, the Divinity Itself will care for you.

Disciple: From what you say I understand that the Guru is the person who helps me differentiate. And this is the protection he gives us.

Swamiji: Not ordinary protection but absolute protection. Guruji is your God, Guide, everything. A normal human being is very ignorant. A blind man can never lead the blind. Only a man who can see can lead the blind. But the blind man has to believe. If we hold on to that man who sees, he will lead us on the right spiritual path. Spiritually spoken, one day he will make the blind man see.

*"pravritti" = inclination of mind, activity, attachment with worldly objects
  "nirvritti" = contentment, freedom from self interest